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Post by fishing_in_israel on Aug 6, 2010 10:56:13 GMT -4
Although I'm still waiting for the baitcasting rod and reel to arrive, the PowerPro line did arrive already.
So, what knots do you guys use for tying direct to terminal tackle rather than using a monofiliment or fluorocarbon leader?
The little booklet that came in the PowerPro box is pretty basic in it's knot suggestions but does recommend to double the line before tying your knot.
I checked on Google and folks recommend knots like the uni-knot using a doubled line.
But what about the traditional Rapala Knot? How does one tie a Rapala Knot using braid?
Double the line first?
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Post by fishing_in_israel on Aug 6, 2010 11:53:00 GMT -4
I just tried doubling the line and tying a Rapala Knot but it bights into itself and breaks at the knot too easily -- as does a regular Rapala Knot without doubling the line  I'm going to have to try experimenting a bit...... |
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Post by rocfish on Aug 6, 2010 12:41:24 GMT -4
I don't use braid, but I do use the fused line "Fireline Crystal" which I imagine has similar characteristics. I had trouble figuring out a workable knot at first also. Turns out the tried and tested Palomar Knot works well (maybe it has something to do with the doubling of the line that the paper work that came with your braid suggests). The only thing you will have to do if you want some freedom of movement of the lure is you will have to tie on to a snap or split ring rather than directly to the lure. Hope that helps. ;D
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Post by Tom on Aug 6, 2010 12:55:48 GMT -4
i don't bother with anything fancy, 5 turn grinner knot or rapala knot, just make sure to moisten it before tightening. I just tie it exactly the same as with mono, never failed on me!
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Post by fishing_in_israel on Aug 6, 2010 13:44:49 GMT -4
I just tried doubling the line and tying a Rapala Knot but it bights into itself and breaks at the knot too easily -- as does a regular Rapala Knot without doubling the line I'm going to have to try experimenting a bit...... One has to be careful experimenting with braid -- it's expensive stuff  Anyway, with regards to knots. For a Rapala type 'loop knot' the King Sling Knot seems to be the best for braid- see below: There's a comparison between the King Sling Knot and another one here: King Sling Knot - Knot WarsWhilst for a 'tight' knot to a split ring, the Doubled Five Turn Uniknot is really strong: |
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Post by mountnmann1 on Aug 6, 2010 16:42:06 GMT -4
I use the good ol Palomar.
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justplainbill
Rattlin Rap
www.myspace.com/billfrainmusic
Posts: 29
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Post by justplainbill on Aug 6, 2010 20:21:19 GMT -4
you may not believe this, but i just use that 1st knot when you tie your shoe. i do it 5 times. and i leave a loop at the lure for that action. i moisten each of the 5 ties, then i clip the excess, then gorilla glue the whole thing. no failures...yet...been using it 2 years.
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Post by fishing_in_israel on Aug 6, 2010 22:07:25 GMT -4
you may not believe this, but i just use that 1st knot when you tie your shoe. i do it 5 times. and i leave a loop at the lure for that action. i moisten each of the 5 ties, then i clip the excess, then gorilla glue the whole thing. no failures...yet...been using it 2 years. Can you explain that a bit? You use the same knot to tie on a Rapala as you use to tie your shoe lace? Kind of like a granny knot with 5 twists? |
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justplainbill
Rattlin Rap
www.myspace.com/billfrainmusic
Posts: 29
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Post by justplainbill on Aug 7, 2010 20:04:10 GMT -4
dont know what a granny knot is. it's just that 1st knot you make tying a shoe lace, before you make the final loop and pull it tight. that's what i use cuz it's easy...
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Post by fishing_in_israel on Aug 7, 2010 21:42:02 GMT -4
dont know what a granny knot is. it's just that 1st knot you make tying a shoe lace, before you make the final loop and pull it tight. that's what i use cuz it's easy... A granny knot is a another name for a simple over-hand knot. I've been experimenting and think I may have come up with modification to the Rapala knot. I will test in work today where we have some measuring gear. Will post back later..... |
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justplainbill
Rattlin Rap
www.myspace.com/billfrainmusic
Posts: 29
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Post by justplainbill on Aug 8, 2010 8:15:07 GMT -4
i find that the more complicated the knot, the harder it is to tie because the line moves around as i manipulate it, and the wind can be a factor, and it takes too much time, and i can't remember all the steps, etc... my simple overhand(?) allows me to quickly get a lure back in the water if i'm on the lake...even without the glue i never have a knot unravel...maybe my saliva is especially sticky! but at home i always add the glue...
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Post by fishing_in_israel on Aug 8, 2010 10:04:43 GMT -4
dont know what a granny knot is. it's just that 1st knot you make tying a shoe lace, before you make the final loop and pull it tight. that's what i use cuz it's easy... A granny knot is a another name for a simple over-hand knot. I've been experimenting and think I may have come up with modification to the Rapala knot. I will test in work today where we have some measuring gear. Will post back later..... That was interesting! The PowerPro 30lb (14kg - 0.28mm) with a standard Rapala knot breaks at only 4.6kg plus/minus. My little modification is actually really simple. 1. Simply take a length of larger diameter monofilament (I used 0.40mm) and lay it parallel to the braid. 2. Tie the two lines together at the end using a simple overhand knot (this just makes it easier to tie the Rapala knot). 3. Tie the Rapala knot keeping the two lines side by side (I don't pass the tag end through the last loop created). 4. Moisten the knot and pull up smoothly. You might need to pull separately on the mono and braid lines to finish tightening the knot properly. 5. Trim the loose ends including the mono loop that goes through the lure eye. The thicker mono acts as a cushion and stops the braid cutting into itself. The original Rapala knot on braid has only about 35% knot strength. The knot with the mono/braid has about 80% knot strength. There is an added bonus - this method doesn't waste a lot of your expensive braid  Anyway, try it out and let me know if your results mirror mine. |
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Post by fishing_in_israel on Aug 8, 2010 10:06:31 GMT -4
i find that the more complicated the knot, the harder it is to tie because the line moves around as i manipulate it, and the wind can be a factor, and it takes too much time, and i can't remember all the steps, etc... my simple overhand(?) allows me to quickly get a lure back in the water if i'm on the lake...even without the glue i never have a knot unravel...maybe my saliva is especially sticky! but at home i always add the glue... Have you ever tried attaching your knot to a fish scale and pulling steadily on the line until it breaks? It would be interesting to see the knot strength %. |
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justplainbill
Rattlin Rap
www.myspace.com/billfrainmusic
Posts: 29
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Post by justplainbill on Aug 8, 2010 18:41:43 GMT -4
no, i haven't. but we have a show over here, i think it's 'north american fisherman' that has a segment called 'knot wars'...i can't remember how to tie all those knots, plus, even in saltwater, i haven't had a failure yet, but that's fish up to 6lbs.
i bought a bunch more stuff today and did my knot a little differently...doubled the line on itself and then tied the 5 overhands. i think i'll be doing that from now on. looks stronger than dirt!
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Post by fishing_in_israel on Aug 8, 2010 21:36:13 GMT -4
no, i haven't. but we have a show over here, i think it's 'north american fisherman' that has a segment called 'knot wars'...i can't remember how to tie all those knots, plus, even in saltwater, i haven't had a failure yet, but that's fish up to 6lbs. i bought a bunch more stuff today and did my knot a little differently...doubled the line on itself and then tied the 5 overhands. i think i'll be doing that from now on. looks stronger than dirt! During my experiments yesterday I was shocked to discover that one of the lines that I use (Awa-Shima ION power Flourine) has 11.9kg breaking strain on the spool -- the line (not the knot) broke at 4.6kg!  I double tested with a super strong knot called the Doubled Five Turn Uniknot: [/quote] Using the above knot the line will break before the knot does! And that was what happened with the Awa-Shima line -- it broke in the middle of the two Doubled Five Turn Uniknots that I tied about 15cm apart. The point is: be wise as to how strong your actual line is and that your line is only as strong as your weakest link. The weakest link is usually a knot and some are way better than others. Some are just downright weak, and sometimes we don't even realize it  I like to test the different kinds of knots that I use on a fish scale to see how strong they actually are  |
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justplainbill
Rattlin Rap
www.myspace.com/billfrainmusic
Posts: 29
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Post by justplainbill on Aug 9, 2010 5:44:45 GMT -4
that's pretty much what i do...although i don't do the 5 wrap and through, i actually tie it 5 times. similar result, i think. i'll be doubling my line every time from now on. i think my way creates less problems when tying it. he had to make a couple of adjustments to make sure everything was symetrical. i just tie and go.
good stuff. i don't feel like such a weak knot tier...
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Post by Compre on Aug 9, 2010 11:58:49 GMT -4
I am using a quick snap, using double palomar my braid. It is easy, quicker and I like to have my knot it in the water more than have it in my hand.
I think the fancier the knots the more difficult and error prone they are. Just keep it simple.
So for me it would be double palomar for braid to a quick snap or to a hook, double uni knot for braid to leader, and a surgeon knot when its dark.
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Post by fishing_in_israel on Aug 9, 2010 12:59:15 GMT -4
I am using a quick snap, using double palomar my braid. It is easy, quicker and I like to have my knot it in the water more than have it in my hand. I think the fancier the knots the more difficult and error prone they are. Just keep it simple. So for me it would be double palomar for braid to a quick snap or to a hook, double uni knot for braid to leader, and a surgeon knot when its dark. That all sounds sensible. I shall experiment with the double palomar with quick snaps. I'm still waiting for the baitcasting rod and reel to arrive - I hope they aren't stuck in customs  -- maybe tomorrow.... |
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Post by walter on Aug 26, 2010 18:39:12 GMT -4
sorry, i'm late. i usually use palomar and 8 knots, the second one with doubled line (i started using it with monofilament and found it working really well)
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